According to Forbes, nearly 50% of all first marriages end in divorce. The statistics for second and third marriages are even higher.
If all parties are in agreement, divorces can be quick and simple. If not, they can be much messier, and both parties have to hammer out who gets the house, the dog, the money, you name it.
If the divorce is an ugly one to begin with and kids are involved, it makes the whole process that much more messy. That’s what appears to have happened to a Reddit user who goes by Cute-Panda100. He has 2 kids from his first marriage, as well as 3 kids with his current wife, plus a “bonus daughter” from his current wife’s first marriage. Cute-Panda’s ex-wife made a mess of the possibility of the 2 kids from the first marriage going on an overseas trip with his current family, even though both kids very much wanted to go. He decided to book the vacation anyway, without the 2 older kids, which, I’m sure you can guess, made for an even bigger mess. Cute-Panda100 just wanted to know if he was doing the right thing or not.
That’s the gist of a situation that popped up last week on the AITA area of Reddit.
Reddit is an American social news aggregator, web content rating, and discussion website. Registered members submit content to the site, such as links, text posts, and images, which other members then voted up or down.
Reddit has an area called AITA, which stands for “Am I The A-Hole.” They describe the community as, “A catharsis for the frustrated moral philosopher in all of us, and a place to finally find out if you were wrong in an argument that’s been bothering you. Tell us about any non-violent conflict you have experienced; give us both sides of the story, and find out if you’re right, or you’re the a-hole.” It’s sort of like a jury of their peers kind of thing and you may eventually be determined to YTA (You’re The A-Hole) or NTA (Not The A-Hole)..
We’ve mentioned other “dysfunctional family” situations from AITA in the past:
- Husband hid his step-kid’s passport, so his wife cancelled the vacation
- He invited his mom on a family trip and didn’t tell his wife
- Someone on a family trip didn’t tell the rest of the family about their plans to upgrade separately from everyone else on the trip
- A guy had planned a family trip overseas but wound up leaving his daughter home because her passport had expired (dang, what IS it with passports?)
Anyway, here’s the original post:
AITA for going on vacation without my children from a previous marriage?
My ex-wife Kate and I have two kids (Mike, 16 and Abby, 14). We had a turbulent marriage and split for many reasons. It wasn’t amicable and I had to fight for custody.
Kate and I both remarried. She didn’t have children with her new husband. I have three (9F, 7F, 5M) kids with my wife and also gained a stepdaughter (19). My stepdaughter’s father left after he found out my wife was pregnant, so she never knew her father. When I came into their lives I took on the role of a father figure. As far as blended families go, I am really lucky that we are all happy. My stepdaughter and I have good relationship and Mike and Abby love their siblings from my wife.
The only person that is against my family is my Kate. My wife is black and this has been a point of contention since the beginning. Especially the fact that my wife is a very dark-skinned black woman is problematic to her. Kate, her husband and I are very white. Kate hates my wife and, especially, my stepdaughter (her bio-dad is also black). Kate’s racism was one of many factors of our divorce. She has been mostly silent on my biracial kids even though they present as black. Thankfully Mike and Abby haven’t taken over her racism.
Because of this, Kate has been on a crusade, trying to make my families life as difficult as possible. It came to a head last week. We were planning to go on a vacation abroad with the entire family. Including Mike and Abby. Everyone was looking forward to it. Especially, my stepdaughter was looking forward to it. But Kate wouldn’t sign the documents that would allow Mike and Abby to travel abroad (because they are minors). Everyone was really disappointed. It would be the first vacation abroad for my three bio-kids with my wife.
I then decided to go and book the vacation anyway but without Mike and Abby. Understandably, they were not happy. Normal I don’t badmouth Kate in front of them, but I told them its because of her that they can’t go.
This caused Kate to become really angry, saying I was prioritising my new family, and abandoning Mike and Abby. She somehow placed the blame for all this on my stepdaughter. Saying my stepdaughter was taking their father away. Also calling me a “race traitor”, which didn’t make sense.
This unleashed a s**tstorm with everyone of our friends weighing in, with some saying I am an asshole. Mike and Abby are p*ssed at me for not going on vacation, and place the blame on me, after I deflected blame away from my stepdaughter.
Kate calls me an a-hole for going on vacation. I am beginning to think booking the vacation was a mistake, AITA?
Cute-Panda100’s question garnered nearly 2000 replies in the first week of being on Reddit. Spoilers: he was overwhelmingly considered to be NTA. Here are some of the more thought-provoking comments (edited only for adult language and brevity/clarity) that ran the gamut from following the rules to the letter to….not LOL.
- NTA but I really hope you’re holding on to any communication from Kate that can be presented to your lawyer. This screams as an attempt to alienate you from your first kids. — PslBlaze
- (Cute-Panda100’s response to the above) I am. We have been an unreasonable amount to family court because Kate keeps wanting to change the custody agreement more in her favour.
- What are you doing to prepare for how your kids are going to feel excluded from the trip? Telling them you chose to marry and have kids with a racist isn’t going to go far in making it easier for them when they see pictures of everyone else on the trip, hear everyone talking about their excitement for it, hear everyone talk about the fun they had on the trip and all the new experiences they got to have together.
Instead of documenting stuff to try to get them to spend more time in that situation, you need to focus on how you are going to help them with it. — perfectpomelo3 - Those two kids are old enough to understand what is going on. I think OP needs to sit down and have a talk with them. Tell them straight up that unless their mother signs the paperwork, they can’t legally go. Tell them he wants to take them and they are invited, as long as she signs.
I was 11-12 when my parents split and 13 when they finalized their divorce (1 year separation required in order to divorce). My mother only ever badmouthed my father; my father would try to keep us out of it. But if I were OP, I would be honest with them. You aren’t badmouthing her, you are telling them exactly what has to happen in order for them to legally be allowed to leave the country. — BadLatinaKitty - I would also tell the now that he is setting money aside to take the both on the same trip when they are 18 (or another trip of their choosing, with him). Telling them now will help give them something to look forward to, and show exactly what a huge asshole his ex is being.
Either that, or he needs to go to court to get this established that she is attempting to alienate the kids from him and either get full custody or get permission for them to travel. The racist crap she is saying ought to be enough proof. — NotAFlatSquirrel - (To multiple suggestions of traveiling with the 2 older kids within the same country) Having been the kid in a situation like this- it doesn’t matter where they go. In state, abroad, or even requesting a couple extra days for a long stay cation… it’ll all be denied and cause upset. It’s not about the location, it’s about holding the power over the other parent.
My sibling had to stay home for several big family trips until they were old enough to legally join us on their own.
To the surprise of no one except that parent, we no longer speak with her for a variety of reasons. — changeneverhappens - For this one time I’d be petty and play her game. I would actually buy the plane tickets for my 2 kids and give the tickets to them. I would also book (refundable) hotel rooms and give them a copy of the reservation. I would let them know, evidence in hand, that they are included on the trip and I would LOVE for them to come. Then I would let the s**tstorm happen at mom’s place when she denies them because how can she say that I don’t want to take them when they have the trip in their hands? It’s going to be a s**t show anyways, let it be HER s**t show.
I would rather lose the $ for the plane tickets (he could probably get a credit anyways) and cancel the hotel at the last minute (maybe pay the one night penalty) just to strengthen my position as “the good guy”. Then, as an 18th bday present, I would take each one on an amazing international trip to compensate for all those they probably couldn’t come to because of mom. It’s not that far off anyways and I’m sure they’d look forward to it. — nmrcdl - He’s caught between two impossible choices. Give in to his ex-wife and go only on vacation with his two kids with her or not give in and vacation with his wife and other kids. His wife and children from his 2nd marriage shouldn’t be, nor should be, punished for the insanity of his ex-wife. They deserve to go on that vacation as much as his other kids. His best and only choice is to go on vacation with his wife and kids and hope that his 14 and 16 year old are mature enough to understand in time and get over their anger at not being able to go due to their mom. — RedSun1524
- This is such a difficult situation. I was in this exact scenario. Bio mom refused to allow her dad and I to take her on holiday with us and her younger siblings. We never told our daughter why she didn’t or couldn’t go or why we cancelled vacations last minute. Until I got fed up. When is it okay to sacrifice every single thing bc of an unhinged parent ? Why is it fair to the other kids. At that point we decided to make it clear to our daughter that we loved her and wanted her to go but she needed to ask her bio mom why she couldn’t go with us. Her mom would flip out bc we were making her seem the bad guy- and we would say BUT YOU ARE. our daughter remembers the times she wasn’t allowed to go. The times we all started behind and the times we didn’t. Her relationship with her bio mom is rocky and the relationship with her dad and I are much better.
Kids aren’t pawns. Hate parents that use their kids as a weapon. — walking_deadinsides - As a mom with an uncooperative coparent, I am going to say this is not a good idea. Yes, the mom is a dumpster person. Yes, it is her not signing that is making it so the kids can’t go. And yes, for some people, I can see being angry and having the FANTASY of showing up and making it so obvious that the other parent sucks that the kids can’t help but be “on the good parents side”. But the reality is, this is not how the exchange would go. Instead, the kids would be subjected to seeing their bio parents have a fight, or see dad mentally strongarm and intimidate mom so she will then have that story to b***h about later, or some other kind of drama between exes that children do not need to see. I don’t agree with the majority of my sons fathers opinions, I think his parenting style leaves a lot to be desired, and I could absolutely see him trying something like this just to exert control over the situation. But, I do not utter a s**tty word about him to his son. I would be angry, and hate the feeling of being possibly chained by my ex to the state for family outings for the foreseeable future. But, I wouldn’t rag on him. I’d tell my son in as nice a way as possible that his dad was “uncomfortable with him going so far” or some such reason, stick to local vacations, and make sure my son knew we were planning a massive vacation to wherever we wanted as soon as he was old enough to legally go without dad’s permission. Kids aren’t stupid. They know what parent is doing right by them, and which is the AH. So by not dragging them along to watch you confront your ex, their mother, you are placing YOURSELF in a position to not look like a jerk, and your ex is showing the kids all on their own what THEIR true colors are.
- Even though your ex is trying to abuse the court system, this is definitely an issue for your attorney. My decree (in the US) states that a parent cannot refuse to sign for a passport or deny international travel without a valid reason, like an attempt to kidnap or it’s during the school year or something.
She’s doing this out of malice and if you try to handle this with your attorney quickly, it may be out of her hands and in your favor. Best of luck. — snarky_spice08
There were many, MANY more comments that were similar to the ones above – I got the impression that a lot of people had some STRONG feelings about this particular topic. Some intimated they had even been down that road before.
Anyway, Cute-Panda100 wrote back and a few hundred replies and gave this update:
Edit: I talked with my wife about the situation after reading through many replies posted here. My wife doesn’t want to cancel or rebook the vacation because she doesn’t want to give Kate more power over our family. I agree.
I sat down with Mike and Abby and, again, explained the situation. They are really angry with their mother and apologised to my stepdaughter for initially blaming her. They really aren’t happy with us going on this vacation without them.
I told them we could take a separate trip with only them domestically. They liked that idea. Another option was that I could still figure out to make them go with us, if Kate would still sign the documents. Maybe they could convince her. I told them to be careful to not overly antagonise her though. Kate can be nasty to them too and I don’t want them punished when they are at their mother’s.
We are planning to go international next year too, and I learned my lesson. I will go to court well in advance and hope that the judge will ok the permission.
I have so many questions about what will happen in the future. Does Kate eventually sign papers to allow Mike and Abby to travel with their dad? Do Mike and Abby begin to see their mom for what she really is, and ask to move in with their dad? Does the whole family, with all 6 kids eventually get to vacation together, SOMEWHERE?
This is one of those stories when I hope the OP eventually writes an update.
Feature Photo: pxfuel / DMCA
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